Subject: Re: RazzO (Bill Nirdlinger) From: "Lee Munzer" Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 20:54:57 -0800 Newsgroups: rec.gambling.poker "debbie" wrote in message news:tv383sp5dbn22c@corp.supernews.com... > OK I don't get it. I have found/read NO synopsis of what Bill had to say > on RazzO's fancast broadcast.... is there some kind of mass conspiracy to > deny those of us who couldn't listen to the show the knowledge of what he > had to say? Or did I miss the whole post? Or did NO ONE listen? > > debbie Go back to the last time you posted this question in another thread. I answered it ... as I will now. My recap is (Warning) very long ... even for me. Bear in mind I can't type as quickly as they spoke, so much is paraphrased. The Q & As also became repetitive periodically, thus I skipped some repeat type questions and rambling stuff. After providing a brief biography (Bill is 52, born in Jersey City and grew up on the lower east side of N.Y.) he launched into a statement. It was apparent Bill had no notes / no outline. I found this interesting and actually made the notation, "Being ill-prepared actually makes him more credible." What I meant is one who is truthful might be more prone to going on an Internet show and flying by the seat of his pants (as opposed to one who has to cover lying statements and get through an agenda of deceit). You may disagree, but I believe Bill just felt he knows the history of GCA, knows what he knows about cheating, said little on the tape (what he said I couldn't hear most of the time as he doesn't project at all) and will just tell the truth. As it turned out, he ducked many questions about specific people when he didn't know whether they were/are clean or dirty. He went out of his way to clear several he felt had been wronged by GCA (that is my interpretation based on his answers and explanations). Amongst the clean players were: Stuie, Erik Drache, Bruce Mengahl (Sp?), Bobby Baldwin, Doyle and someone named Bitor (Sp?). One of the first questions addressed Bill's first hand knowledge concerning Doyle Brunson. Bill said he knows many mechanics and asked them all specifically whether they had done business with Doyle. To a man they said they had not. Two said not only had they not, but, they had done business with several players who cheated Doyle. Later, when asked why he felt Doyle, a clean player, had been singled out, Bill said he had asked Russ this same question. Russ admitted he attacked Doyle (not because he was dirty) but because he was the biggest name in poker and was likely to give GCA he attention they needed. Interestingly, Doyle (or someone impersonating him) called the show later and asked Bill to tell what he knew about GCAs attempt to extort Doyle for cash. Bill said that before all the posts began, Russ called Doyle, reached his answering machine, laid out his plan, and closed with, "We're negotiable." Bill indicated this was a clear message of extortion. Bill stated RGP should use common sense when evaluating these accusations. For example, the one that claimed Stuie cheated all those players to win the 1997 WSoP was ridiculous. Bill said Stuie had a huge ego and believed he was the best player in the world. He didn't believe he needed to cheat and it wasn't his style. The reason he wore the dark glasses may have been to hide redshot eyes. Bill went on to say the cheating "red lens" and "blue lens" glasses do exist. Later, in the same context, he singled out the accusation that Bobby Baldwin was involved in Bellagio cheating as ludicrous (I agree completely). He said, Bobby has always been considered a model of integrity . given his position, use common sense. When asked what to expect from Russ after this interview, Bill replied Russ will probably start making posts that he (Bill) was paid off. Bill laughed and said. "I wish I were paid off but I wasn't." Question from a listener: "Bill, on the tape you said you did business with Doyle. Can you explain?" Bill denied it saying he did say there were marked cards in a game he played versus Puggy and Bill made the assumption Puggy was targeted by Doyle. Listener: "You were privy to a conversation while in Costa Rico between an equipment manufacturer/distributor and a high level Bellagio executive concerning cheating paraphernalia. Tell us what you heard." The questioner definitely mixed up Bill and John Martino. Thus Bill was not privy to that conversation. I recall John saying he only heard one end of the conversation (the equipment manufacturer, Marty Carson's part). Listener: "Who in management and what name players have you cheated with?" Bill refused to answer saying that was not the purpose of this interview. He went on to say most of this stuff happened in the Wild West days (confirming my suspicion that GCAs knowledge is much better when talking about historical times). Listener: "What other lenses are available?" Bill: "Blue lenses which work with blue cards the same way red lenses work with red cards." Listener: "You have accused many of cheating. Are you backing off?" Bill told the listener he was confusing the GCA personnel as he (bill) didn' t post accusations, Russ is responsible for almost all the accusatory posts. He said the only one he recalls discussing was "Shoeshine Nick." Listener: "Bill, does management have to be in on cheating?" While he didn't answer this directly he did say in Las vegas (today) you pretty safe. To me, it appeared that if Bill had agendas, one might be a bias toward Las Vegas and a prejudice against California rooms. Listener: "Russ says you tried to arrange his murder." Bill: (Laughing) Oh, yeah that's a beauty. The answer, of course, is no. He believes Russ has a flare for mystery and drama (he referred to the "Showdown in the Northwest where Russ stood down Ray Z.). Bill said Russ mixes the truth in where he can in an effort to enhance credibility. Doyle (I believe it was Doyle) called in again and asked: "There were two extortion attempts (one directly and one through Eric Drache). Can you tell the listeners what you know about these attempts." Bill reiterated the one phone call he knew of second-hand (from Russ) and said he believes there were multiple attempts, but he (Bill) had nothing to do with it and is unaware of the details. Rick DaVoice: "Some of this stuff Russ says is true, but isn't he taking some of this as a starting point and creating fantasies?" Bill said that was definitely the case. Rick DaVoice: "I heard you used to deal Stuie seconds and cheated for him in other ways." Bill said it never happened - he never did business with Stuie although they were friends and sometimes partnered in gin rummy winnings. Rick DaVoice: Can you please tell us about the blue glasses?" Bill: "Stuie just happened to be wearing blue glasses (his eyes were bloodshot red)." Rick DaVoice: Did you do business with anyone who is still doing business today? Bill: "Yes, but as I've discussed, I won't name them, but I will say it's just one or two people." Rick DaVoice: "I was told you were going to be involved in authoring a book on cheating, true?" Bill answered (paraphrased): No one has approached me about doing a book and I have approached nobody, but there was a 60 minute show that never got off the ground. When Rick showed disbelief (he apparently has a trusted source on this one), Bill indicated it might have been Russ and/or John. Listener (Payraise): "Are you still cheating?" Bill: (paraphrased) No, where would I go to cheat after making the tape . I' m too well known now, so obviously my cheating days are over. Actually, in casinos and card clubs I only cheated in Asian games; not poker. (I found this to be quite a revelation). Rick DaVoice: "I had scheduled Russ to be on my Fancast show, but he ducked and dodged. Then he accused me of lying on RGP. He even created a "liars award" and sent me $100. Is this his modus operandi?" Bill affirmed Rick's suspicions. I didn't write down who asked, "What was your/GCA's motive?" Bill: My main reason for getting involved was to expose chip switching in California tournaments. That would be a springboard to starting a company and/or gaining employment from casinos to assist surveillance teams. Listener (Frank): "Is cheating going on in Europe?" Bill: "Yes, scamming and cheating is going on in Europe. I have gone there three times to do business. If you're asking me if cheating is more prevalent in Europe I don't know but I would say surveillance systems and surveillance personnel is better in the U.S." "How about cheating online?" I didn't feel Bill was qualified to answer this and he admitted the same. Listener: "What were your thoughts when you left GCA?" Bill: "My thoughts . how could I have gotten involved with this maniac? Russ seeks and needs attention. He doesn't care what he says as long as he gets attention." Razzo: "You've said that poker, especially Las Vegas poker, is now relatively clean. In the future what can players do to protect themselves?" Bill: (paraphrased) Watch the players eyes, they shouldn't be focused on the backs of the cards. But, be aware that a neophyte will not be able to catch a professional cheat. If you feel something is wrong, it probably is wrong. Leave the game. Play in busy cardrooms because people go to honest rooms - if they keep losing at a room they wouldn't play there. Of interest . Bill said one year ago Russ appeared to be sane. He became progressively insane and today is undeniably insane. I found the interview interesting and it confirmed many of the opinions I have formed about partial truths, big names being clean, and motives of GCA. Far be it from me to make a futile attempt to wrest the "ass-kisser" title from the show's host, but nice job, RazzO! Lee